CSM9 Issue Panel: Industry

Featuring CSM9 candidates Mynnna, Steve Ronuken, and Sugar Kyle

Topics covered: Industry UI, each candidates thoughts on the direction indy improvements should take, highsec production capacity, impact of FW on lowsec industry, Farms and Fields from the producer perspective

Recorded the day before the release of today’s dev blog regarding changes to refining. Kudos to CSM8 incumbent Mynnna for being able to stop himself from letting the cat out of the bag during this in depth discussion.

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13 thoughts on “CSM9 Issue Panel: Industry

  1. Why would mynnna let anything out of the bag. His goon economic warfare group has a huge competitive advantage knowing weeks in advance of the general Eve populace of the changes coming down the pipe.

    So from the gist of this panel conversation, the assault on high sec industry was not completed by this null sec cartel lobby group 8, but wiping out manufacturing capabilities in high sec will be completed by null sec lobby group 9.

    Either CCP truly is immensely stupid, or simply does not care about the high sec component of their subscription base. The destruction of high sec that the cartels have been working on now will NOT increase the subscription base. I simply cannot fathom why CCP so happily serves the cartels.

    • I’m glad CCP is finally addressing the highsec welfare state after years of requests by players and CSMs from nullsec, lowsec, 0.0, and highsec.

      • “highsec welfare state”. I do find it interesting that Eve is a sandbox until one finds a type of game play that one doesn’t approve of. Then it becomes a problem that CCP “finally” needs to address.

        • It will still be a sandbox once there’s room made for players to invest in player-built industrial infrastructure. A bigger one, quite frankly.

          If your “type of game play” requires permanent invulnerability from player competition, players of higher skill or intelligence, and market forces then no, I don’t approve. That’s extremely un-EVE; if that is the only kind of game you like there are a few on Facebook you could try.

          • No, highsec does not give one invulnerability, as you are suggesting. That you feel the need to use such over the top hyperbole just gives me more reason to believe that this is about a personal bias toward your particular play style.

  2. Feel free to share with the class your method of shooting things inside stations or providing numbers as to how highsec production and research lines are set by market demand.

    We’ll wait 😉

      • If you do nearly anything in the game you’re PVPing whether you want to or not. This is about balance.

        The tldr is you, like many entitled highsec players that give that area of space a bad name, don’t want to give up the nearly unassailable no-cost advantage you have over players that work a lot harder for what they DO have.

        It’s a brave new world bro, learn to love it. Or not; Blizzard could always use another 15$.

        • Entitled high sec players, that is so funny. Still, after the millionth time it spewed out by some null sec cartel lackey, it is still funny, in a sad way. Null sec has everything that high sec does, and more. Yet it is not enough. Null sec cartel leadership wants high sec to be a smoldering wasteland, where the players are forced to head to null to make any kind of income, which naturally leads to a good chunk of that ending up in the real life pockets of the cartel leaders.

          Null sec has more resources, in quantity and quality. A station is easily set up now with the new specs to far exceed the mfg capabilities of high sec stations. Yet we keep hearing how difficult it is to mfg in null sec.

          Sorry, I personally RAN EDROP’s industrial wing when we were part of FCON, near the tail end of the NC alliance’s reign. We had shitty territory, terrible alliance leadership, shitty resources and a shitty location (right on the pipe where PL and others would come roaming). And we still were very successful.

          And that was before the massive gifting of null sec ores, and ice, and the immense security of the deep blue blankets with the NIP’s and NAP’s we have today.

          If I had all the tools to play with that null has been gifted in the last year, creating huge industrial might would be child’s play.

          But of course, null sec whines it is so poor, meantime the failed laywer is extolling every one of his acolytes to get into a titan, or supercap at the very least. And renters pay over 10 billion per month for some systems, just for the privilege of making less than they could in high sec….yeah, I believe that.

          But yeah, I can see from your smug answer high sec in doomed, because you guys control the CSM, and your grip on the dev’s tightens more every day. It is a fait accompli that high sec is being wrecked further until no casual player can make a living. By casual player, I mean one who does not play 4 hours a day, every day, and loves sucking the dick of some null sec sociopath running a corp or alliance.

  3. Every response of yours reinforces my original point. You know nothing about my game play and yet you’ve decided that I’m an “entitled hisec player”. The entitlement is clearly your own. I agree with Pirannha: “Null sec has everything that high sec does, and more. Yet it is not enough.” Perhaps it is time for you to remember a important fact – Eve is only a game and if the only way you can enjoy it is through never ending buffs from CCP, it may be time for you to consider a different pastime.

  4. The biggest and most pressing problem of Industry is the interface. Way too many clicks to do anything, when the interface is not trying to prevent you to do what you want.
    The interface needs a major overhaul.

    The DEV blog changes on industry go mostly in the right direction described in the podcast, of promoting Null Industry without having to nerf highsec too much. My only complain is against that PoS perfect-refining module that makes refining skills obsolete except in some sov nullsec (unless it is a temporary stop-gap measure, waiting for the new PoS code, in summer or winter).

    Still Lowsec is, again, getting the short end of the stick, but this is linked to lowsec mechanics, and lowsec still has a few advantages for those ready to risk ships and gatecamps (drug, PI, moon, copy/invention…).

    As stated in the podcast, to help Mining, there should be anomalies and scanning required. It would prevent botting, making mining more interactive. Increasing greatly the yield in those anomalies would also reduce the time spend mining for similar minerals (so reducing the window of vulnerability of the miner), which would be a plus for lowsec. Belts would be kept as is (or reduced) to let the current gameplay (afk/bot), while introducing a new gameplay.

    The same concepts of interaction (minigames?) can be applied on all Industry, tweaking the cost (for manufacturing) or end result (invention, reverse engineering) chances, allowing invention to provide different results. For example, invention could provide randomly meta 1-4 bpc instead of the T2 bpc, on partial fails (if the game was good but the result is failed), pushing interactivity.

    External factors (like Null-sec sov or FW influence) should provide direct bonuses or maluses to those activities that are not random at all, currently (if you are aligned with that side). I started as a newbie FW industrial and doing FW was only hindering my industry, always carrying a big red target on my back. Having the datacore in the LP store (and additional lines in lowsec stations), now, is still not really worth being in FW for any industrialist.

    Industry is currently too predictable and is not influenced by any external factor (the cost of lines is a non-factor, as it is too low), and it would be a great future for industry to become susceptible to external factors. There is no reward and only risk, which explains the prevalence of highsec carebear industrialists (and I am partly one).

    Please make industry affected by the surroundings and the actions of others. That way there is a Farm & Field concept that will allow small-gang to disrupt the industrial backbone without having to face the Big Boyz Fleetz.


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